When I tell people that I am Christian, or when they ask me and recieve an affirmative, the most common thing that is immedietly spun back at me is "What denomination are you".
And I always just answer "Evangelical" (cause they ALL know what that is, right?) but inside my head I'm rolling my eyes.
Did I ask what denomination you are? Do you really think that it matters what denomination I am? Yes, there can be some marked differences. And Protestant and Catholicism are practically different faiths. But the idea of there being dozens of different types of Protestant bugs me a little.
The thing about there being so many different denominations is that it's all human error. I don't think that God wants us to be splintered into dozens of different factions, often bickering over bible details that probably none of us understand correctly anyway. In John 17, Jesus prays for future believers. 17:20 - "I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be as one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.. that they may be as one as we are one: I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me."
Funny, I didn't see "may they all bicker over what interpretation they find best." I believe that all that is important is that we all try to follow God and his wishes as best as we can, loving him and believing in him always.
Obviously, there are unavoidable points of contention. Calvinists believe that God knows the future, most or many non-Calvinists don't. Catholics worship the Virgin Mary, which is just not ok as it specifically states in the Bible to "have no idols beside me". I don't like the idea of worshipping a human. And then we have the wackos like the Westboro Baptist Church, who are deeply decieved into believeing that they are following God's will.
When we faction, we give the world the idea that we don't know what we are doing and that Christianity is a divided faith. That's very counterproductive.
Continue prayers to Japan, please. Historically, Japan has been a very resistive country to the Message and hopefully this disaster will open their hearts.
Thanks to Haley Larsen for helping to inspire this post.
I think the world needs more hurricanes, earthquakes, and tsunamis. Then everybody would be a Christian.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous -
ReplyDeleteSince you didn't specify, I'm going to assume you are talking about Japan.
I know how you feel. I'm going to be honest with you here - I don't always fully understand either. I don't think any human can fully understand the plans of an all powerful God. However, I like to believe that my faith and trust in Him is strong enough to withstand trials.
I know you aren't a Christian, but I looked up a few verses for you. Obviously, the whole book of Job relates to what is going on in Japan. But there are also a few other verses I looked up for you. If you care about it that much, take a look these verses. Romans 8:28 tells how God uses everything in his plan. In Psalm 106:40-42, God allows trouble to come to the Israelites in order to help them in the long run.
But, honestly, I just believe that the height of arrogance is to question the plans of an all powerful God.
I believe the height of arrogance is to believe your views are right.
ReplyDeleteI also think its disgusting to be able to think the tsunami could be good in terms of religion... >:(
Bradley -
ReplyDeleteMaybe we ought to stop all the donations. Maybe we ought to stop trying to feed the hungry. Maybe we ought to stop curing diseases. It seems as though to do so would to interfere with "God's plan". So why even do anything at all?
Let the man with HIV die, let the girl with an abusive father suffer, let the boy without a home scrap food from the trash, for these will things will "bring them closer to the light."
Heh, I bed God and Jesus are what all the Japanese people are thinking about right now.
It's just intellectual masturbation and morally reprehensible to passively stand by while and view these atrocities as part of "God's plan" and as positive events for their potential to break "the resistance".
Bradley...to not question something that you don't understand and is non-falsifiable is "the height of arrogance".
I can see where you are coming from when talking about denominations and how they get frustrating and complicated but I think we should remember that in the long run, all christians are christians. We are all reading the same bible and praising the same God. And I just wanted to clarify some things in terms of Catholicism. The Virgin Mary is not a replacement for God or Jesus, but she also wasn't a regular human being. She was a very holy woman who gave birth to Jesus and today Catholics honor her by praying to her to help us with our problems and to help us better serve God. That is one example of a misconception that many have about Catholicism and should remind us not to make judgments about other denominations. We are all a lot more similar than we think.
ReplyDeleteYikes, ok, gotta differentiate to different anonymouses here.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 1: Don't we ALL believe that our own views are right? That's why we believe what we do, you know? And I'm pretty sure that I did not say the "tsunami was good". I prayed that it would somehow work out to have at least some good result as I see it, and I don't think that's a bad thing.
Anonymous 2: I'll admit that your comment got to me a little bit. You misunderstood virtually everything that I said to you. We should talk about this in person (I'm sure you know me and interact with me. I won't get mad at you becuase you don't share my views).
If you want to stop your donations, feel free. I'm not forcing you to donate everything. I will say that Christian organizations donate to various things all over the world. It was never a question about whether we should help people or not. What you missed is that the help going out to the Japanese is part of God's plan too. When did I encourage passivity and standing by?
Anonymous 3: You're right, I probably missed a lot in my interpretation of Catholicism lol. But my basic point was the same. I personally don't believe in praying (and thus worshipping) to anything or anyone outside of the Trinity. But to be clear, I'm not trying to convert you here. Your comment clicked with most of my post and I think we are thinking the same message: our "denomination" shouldn't matter in the eyes of God. Thanks a lot for the comment
At the heart of it, there will always be the difference between you and me that leads to our disagreeing viewpoint: I am able to believe in something intangible that I may not fully understand, and you, I guess, can't. That's fine.
ReplyDeleteThis blog was never meant to convert people. Not why I created it. I'm honestly (as I'm sure you have deduced) not an expert on biblical text and studies.
Interestingly enough, you managed to relate to my original post. Our discussion revolves around a question that is not resolved among different denominations: Does God know the future? If he does not, that would help to explain the occurence of natural disasters. Calvinists believe that God has everything planned, to the dot. I'm considerably less sure about that, personally.
And no matter how sarcastic you were, I actually agree with your last sentence.
dude, you totally are deleting my comment you nub
ReplyDeleteThe crux of the argument is this, if you had a sandwich and were given the choice to eat it yourself, or give it to the hungry man standing next to you, which should you choose?
ReplyDeleteThe clear answer is to eat the sandwich yourself, since either choice would be part of "God's plan", why not pick the one that benefits you (but then again, does that choice exist? hah).
Is everything part of "God's plan"? If so, go apeshit and have faith in his "plan". If not, how do we differentiate what is part of his "plan" and what is not? And since horrors like the tsunami in Japan are apparently apart of it, would attempting to soften its effect be deviating from the almighty "plan"? It would seem nonsensical for both opposing forces to be included.
But with that all that said, it's all just irrelevant in the end since I cannot fully understand the plans of an all powerful God.
(part 1)
ReplyDeleteBradley -
Let's debate it out here on this public forum, as I think it would be more educational. It's also very helpful to point out specifically what I misunderstood instead of asserting that I misread your entire post.
And no, I don't interact with you.
Say God sent a fatal virus to Iraq as part of his "plan" to "help them in the long run". Let's say I stop that virus by inventing the cure. It seems that I am doing a bad thing by preventing that disease destined to show the Iraqi's the power of God or whatever.
You misunderstood my argument Bradley. I did not criticize you for directly encouraging passivity and standing by. What I did critique you for is the slippery slope that you justify, that regardless of anything that happens in the world, it's all just part of "God's plan".
It's exemplified especially when you say "What you missed is that the help going out to the Japanese is part of "God's plan" too.". So the tsunami is part of "God's plan". Helping them is part of "God's plan." Not helping them is part of "God's plan". If we all decided to stop being philanthropic and helping people, that's probably part of "God's plan" too.
I didn't delete anything
ReplyDelete(part 2) part 3 was the first one
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't understand is, why is God being so inefficient by sending natural disasters only to have us humans try to offset them.
I understand the appeal, mindlessly explaining all the happenings of the world as part of a holy plan that none of us know about or understands, using "God's plan" to see positive in the worst of natural disasters...that it leads to the possibility of a net-increase of Christians, or a net-decrease of buddhists and other faiths for that matter.
part 3
ReplyDeleteThe crux of the argument is this, if you had a sandwich and were given the choice to eat it yourself, or give it to the hungry man standing next to you, which should you choose?
The clear answer is to eat the sandwich yourself, since either choice would be part of "God's plan", why not pick the one that benefits you (but then again, does that choice exist? hah).
Is everything part of "God's plan"? If so, go apeshit and have faith in his "plan". If not, how do we differentiate what is part of his "plan" and what is not? And since horrors like the tsunami in Japan are apparently apart of it, would attempting to soften its effect be deviating from the almighty "plan"? It would seem nonsensical for both opposing forces to be included.
But with that all that said, it's all just irrelevant in the end since I cannot fully understand the plans of an all powerful God.
You know, I'd say it's poor form to attempt to troll a well-meaning post
ReplyDeleteI'd say it's poor form not challenge a view that I find morally reprehensible. If you want to be a Christian, that's fine. If you are going to use Christianity to justify a view that the tsunami was a good thing, that's bogus.
ReplyDeletespecifically, when did I say that the "tsunami is a good thing"?
ReplyDeleteSaying that something is part of a greater plan, or saying that I hope some good will come of something, is very different from saying the whole event is a good thing.
Dear Anonynous who is asking the many questions about God's Plan,
ReplyDeleteI am a christain. I'm just putting it out there. As a Christain, I believe that God's Plan is like a GPS. God has a destination for everyone. God wants us to be with Him and to spend eternity with him. He says so in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him will not die but have eternal life". God, therefore, places occurences or things in our lives to help us see Him and recognize that we need Him. These things come in many forms, from natural disasters to death to hardships within relationships, anything. God WANTS TO GET OUR ATTENTION!!! Now, when we sin or make a mistake, that is not part of God's plan. So, if a person accidentally crashes their car and injured or kills someone because they are drunk or on drugs or something, that person has sinned and God does not plan sin. Instead, having the GPS feature, God says "recalculating" and uses the situation for His own glory, whether it be to bring someone to christ or teach them a leson. Now, let's take the sandwich example from above. If you ate the sandwich that's fine because God is such a mighty and awsome and powerful God that he will use someone else to feed the hungry man. But if you feel led to give your sandwich to the man, that is God telling you to fulfill His will and feed the hungry man. The point is that God is so powerful and mighty that while humans sin and God doesn't want that, he can use human mistakes to glorify Himself and complete His will or use his servants directly if they are listening to Him to glorify Himself.
Does that help? Do you have any other questions? Do you want an exapmple of how God has used me for His will or said "recalculating" to mistakes in my life?
-Carissa
This is a different anonymous, I swear.
ReplyDeleteCarissa: I find many things wrong in your views :I Lets begin. First, you say that God only does not plan for our mistakes. The tsunami =/= sin or mistake itself, so it was therefore planned. Now why was this planned? Is this to glorify himself and recalculate Japan's route? I find this too "morally reprehensible" as the other anon. put it.
I don't understand why God needs to glorify himself all the time either. First, I feel that perfection comes with humility as well, and God seems everything but humble, and I cannot help but see this as a flaw in your God.
Also, why does god need to be a male? Why is god not life, or why is god not energy? I want an answer other than the brainwashed "The bible says so." or "it just is." please THINK.
Also Carissa, you misspelled "Christian" _twice_
One day there was an argument between Bradley and a greek. The greek was like dude you and your family need to be greek or Zeus will be angry. Bradley is like nuh uh bro imma be a Christian and God will punish you if you're not Christian.
ReplyDeleteThen one day, Bradley's house was devastated in a lightning storm. I won't say your family died, but your house is gone and your family is injured badly.
Greek: Well, I mean, I'm sorry and this sucks, but toldja so! Hope you become Greek now!
And then, years later, they both die and the Christian man is rewarded for not giving up as soon as things get bad.
ReplyDeleteAlso...
ReplyDeleteI love the controversy and questions, but please remember to be respectful because I'd prefer not to disable anonymous comments.
And the Japanese should give up their beliefs when things get bad?
ReplyDeleteI feel this reinforces that god is kinda rude...And its not that JUST Japan is being hit; the holy country of America is having its fair share of troubles too. Why can God not perform some more miracles for them? I don't think people would have ever turned Christian without witnessing the miracles. Yet, now god resorts to violence to convince them?
Also, I'm being pretty respectful, just imagine my tone to be so. Now answer my questions =]
And then years later a Christian man in Rikuzen is rewarded...wait no...he's dead. But that's ok, sometimes we have to make sacrifices. Kill to save mentality, go God!!
ReplyDelete"is rewarded for not giving up as soon as things get bad"
ReplyDeletehaha funny. Then I imagine the Japanese people are supposed to give up their faith when things get bad? Good strategy God, because I bet all the other faiths the Japanese people practice don't have that same clause.
Just a couple questions for you Bradley. What are your views on the Church of Scientology? How much do you know about it? And what do you believe will happen to someone who is apart of that group when they die?
ReplyDelete-Thetan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZjqznnl88g&feature=related
ReplyDeleteI know absolutely nothing about the Church of Scientology. What is it?
ReplyDeleteTo the anonymous who pointed out my spelling mistake: I'm sorry about that. Spelling has never been something that I have been good at, but I don't see it as something that separates me from God or makes me any less of a Christian.
ReplyDelete-Carissa
As to the question about God's purposes with specific reguards to Japan, God works in many different ways. While he does not want us to sin or plan for us to sin/make mistakes they do happen. But, natural disasters do not always occure in order to bring a nation to Christ. Sometimes they occure to show God's power and to glorify himself. In the case of Japan it could be to either bring the people to realization that He is there or to show His power to the nation and the world because we seem to forget that sometimes. God also uses these events for different purposes in different people's lives. While there may be a person who needs to see Christ there may also be another person who God is giving the opportunity to to bring Christ the the broken people who need Him. There may also be another Christain there who's faith is being tested because he or she needs to learn to be humble or rely on God. I understand that you don't feel this is right or moral, but humans are sinful people who sometimes need a BIG wake up call from God and to remember who our God really is instead of idolising (sorry if i spelt that wrong :P) people or money or posessions.
ReplyDelete(Continued below -carissa)
Also, another queston asked was why God needs to glorify Himself all of the time. I have a question for you in return. Why do companies, like McDonalds need to advertise so much? Why do movie stars want to win awards or get credit for their music? Just like they want other people to know about them, God wants us to know about Him and how magnificent and powerful and holy He is. We seem to forget that sometimes. If you ever get the chance to listen to a youtube video by Louie Giglio, he talks a lot about how big and powerful God is and that might help you understand why its important that we remember God and how amazing he is. I know that it was also asked why God glorifies Himself instead of being humble since humility is part of perfection. I have a question for you agian. If you created a group of beings would you not want them to recognize you as their creator or help them to recognize that you created them and were there for them and love them and want them to rely on you because you know what is best for them and care about them and are more wise than they are?
ReplyDelete(Continued below -carissa)
A third question asked was why God is refered to as a male instead of as a female or something else. The bible referes to God as our Heavenly Father and Jesus was a male. God is also refered to as He and it uses His or Him. I think that this was because in our culture and in past cultures women had little voice or rights in the past and therefore a man was more likely to be listened to or respected. That doesn't mean that God is a male or a female or an animal. We don't know exactly what God looks like because nobody has ever seen Him before they got to heaven. The bible also tells us not to make any statues or figures of God because we don't know His true form. In Genesis 4: 14-19 the bible says "But be very careful! You did not see the Lord's form on the day he spoke to you from the heart of the fire at Mount Sinai. So do not corrupt yourselves by making an idol in any form - whether of a man or a woman, an animal on the ground, a bird in the sky, a small animal that scurries on the ground, or a fish in the deepest sea. And when you look up into the sky and see the sun, moon, and stars - all the forces of heaven - don't be seduced into worshiping them. The Lord you God gave them to all the peoples of the earth." As a Christain I refer to God as a male because that is what the bible referes to Him as and I don't know what else I would call Him so that people would still understand who I was talking about.
ReplyDelete(Continued below -carissa)
To the person who asked if someone would answer their questions because they asked them with a respectful tone, thank you for your questions! Also, one that was asked was why God doesn't use miracles very often in some countries. The answer is that God produces miracles in every country both big and small. Whether people are comming back to life and being healed of rare diseases or the traffic flows fast enough to get them to work on time even though they left later than usual, God is working miracles everywhere. Human life is a miracle in and of itself. We are beautifully and wonderfully created by God. Once again I am encouraging whoever reads this to search for Louie Giglio on youtube. Specifically type Louie Giglio How Great Is Our God Full Video. Its about 40 min long but worth the full thing.
ReplyDeleteI hope this helps! And I hope you have more questions!
-Carissa
You should definitely post about gay marriage. I am excited to hear what you have to say about it! I know you will write your arguments very well. Have you considered writing about how to convert atheists? I have some friends that are atheist and I am scared that they are going to Hell if they don't convert.
ReplyDeleteThanks,
Josannah
Josannah, are you talking to Bradley or Carissa?
ReplyDeleteIf you "don't like the idea of worshiping a human", why do you worship Jesus?
ReplyDeleteLuke 24:39 - "Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
John 1:14 - "The Word became flesh..."
Hebrews 2:17 - "For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way..." [referring to Jesus]
"Historically, Japan has been a very resistive country to the Message and hopefully this disaster will open their hearts." -Dawson...In the kingdom of god, i do not believe that Japan exists. thus how can you say that they have been a resistive culture if in the view, and kingdom of god, it dosent exist? WE are apart of the resistant culture. what separates you and I from our Japanese brothers and sisters in gods view? you make it sound so us versus them. to quote brother Ali- "theres no me, and no you its just us". everyone is equal under god. non believers and those who follow christ. to elaborate what does geographical placement upon his earth mean to god? setting people who just happen to live on an island we call "Japan" apart from the rest of the world, and labeling my brothers and sisters as some "resistant culture", is the opposite of what i believe anyone should do. They are US. My point is this statement promotes division among gods people, by labeling geographically placed people different from others in the world, including yourself, when fundamentally, and most importantly we are all the same through gods love.
ReplyDelete